Con v. Less Con - Mixed Martial Arts Edition

Mixed Martial Arts, MMA, fan or not a fan?

RTS
I am a unabashedly a fan. I got hooked in the earlier days of the sport. I am not going to say I was there at the beginning but I was there pretty early. UFC 8 was the first event I saw when it was still under new releases at the movie store. They just completed UFC 110. The initial hooks for me were the tournament style of the events and that there were a lot of former amateur wrestlers competing. I was not a great or even a good high school wrestler, but I did participate in my fair share of Saturday tournaments. I continued to follow college wrestling at Iowa. When talking about the greatest wrestling programs, the debate is only between Iowa and OK St (if you look the time period after Gable took over at Iowa, Iowa is hands down #1). MMA to me is an extension of amateur wrestling. The sport has grown and morphed from what it originally started as, but it still features ex-wrestlers and lots of grappling.

Jan
OK, got it, you like "wrasslin'" - but I don't see the UFC as that at all. I'm not a fan. Call me whatever you want (here, I'll get you started: 'Sissy Pants') but watching guys bludgeon each other and try to "end" someone isn't my cup of tea. I get why men ages 13 to 45 are entranced (it's always weird when women are involved in this sport either as a participant or as a spectator, am I right on this?) it's the most basic of human competition but I'm not one attracted to the violence. I understand it is "mixed martial arts" and that there is undoubtedly skill involved in the moves, holds, fist-punchings they deliver and I understand that not everyone is meant for 'regular work' but how long before the next Ron Mexico gets busted for a arranging "Tyson v. a Black Bear?" Also, sounds like the "tournament" format is exciting but just re-watch Bloodsport or attend your VFW hall on "Gin Rummy Night" if you need to see some bracketology ("Grandpa Joe" is a 3rd seed? No way!)

RTS
OK Sissy Pants, it is weird when women watch this. Kind of like girls who try dipping or smoking cigars. Chances are they have some self esteem problems and are desperately trying to get the attention of a guy. The sport can be brutal at times. I know you saw James Thomson's ear explode. On the flip side a sweet submission is just as cool as a guy being pummeled with fists. One guy sinks the submission, the other guy taps (if he is smart) and both guys can leave relatively unscathed.

As far as fighting bears and the like that is a bit much and goes back to John McCain's cock fighting argument. This stuff is licensed. However what most resembles what you are describing is Japan. There is no steroid testing and matches pitting a guy with no chance of winning vs. a star is common place. Throw in foot stomps, soccer kicks and knees to downed opponents and Japan truly is the wild west of MMA.

You don't watch it, but do you think it is here to stay?

Jan
Wow, can I retort the retort? I won't. Anyway, you asked do I think it is here to stay? Of course. It will just get bigger and evolve. These sports tend to be somewhat cyclical in nature; it was a little less than 20 years ago that the "Fun Club" in high school went to the taping of "American Gladiators" at Target Center (true story; who didn't love the 'Fun Club?') Then there is the WWF and all that it went through from Mean Gene to an IPO. I think MMA is a progression of all “that.” I think it will level out at some point like all things but will still be huge if/when it goes global. I went to China once, there’s a billion Brock Lesnar fans right there. Honestly, a version of the "Running Man" sans Richard Dawson is right around the corner. Have to admit I'd buy that for a dollar. (too obscure?)

My grandfather lived until he was 93 years old, so I got to know him pretty well. He was an avid sportsman himself (remind me tell you about all his 'aces' on the links sometime) but he always told me I should lead the campaign to outlaw boxing as it was brutal. Yes, a kooky concept for me to be involved with on so many levels.

Now, do you think that there is anything wrong with putting this violence front and center in our society? Or are you gonna disagree with my grandfather, may the Lord rest his soul?

RTS
I am not for banning either one. If forced by water boarding to say which one should be banned I am going with boxing. In MMA if a fighter gets creamed and dropped into heap on the ground and can no longer defend himself the fight is ruled over and he is the loser. In boxing, that guy gets 10 seconds to pick himself up and then go and absorb more punishment. Even Evander Holyfield can figure out who is going to suffer more long term damage.

Playing the devils advocate, I won't say MMA will go away but it could see a big decline. There have been 110 UFCs, I am guessing that 50% of the American fan base came on board within the last 60 UFCs or the last 5 years. Eventually, the UFC will become old hat and lose people who are watching it for shock value or that they feel like they are cool because it is an underground thing or the new thing. As the popular fighters retire they will need to replace them with other fighters that people want to follow. That is not a given, look what happened with boxing's heavyweight division. Who was the champ after Evander Holyfield? Lennox Lewis, who was less popular. Who was champ after Lennox Lewis? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Being that it is still a developing sport there are several questions that need to play out to be answered. It is a sport right now dominated at the top by one large organization. Over a few years several challengers have tried to compete only to fail after hemorrhaging money. So is it that MMA is popular or is it that the UFC is popular? What happens to the sport if the UFC is no longer supreme and there are several organizations diluting the fighter pool? What if Zuffa sells the UFC to new management? Is the UFC going to be the top level and all the other organizations being feeders? With the sport being relatively new and still sorting things out, it is too early to say for certain that it will continue to grow in popularity. Don't believe me? Pride used to be the big organization in Japan. They used to sell out the Saitama Super Areana! The Saitama Super Arena I tell ya! Then they lost their TV deal and the next thing you know the UFC buys them for their fighters contracts and back library of events. They close the doors and fire all the employees.

Alright, regardless of where you stand, there is some primal rage in all of us. So, who would you like to fight in the squared-circle-octagon? Pick anyone throughout history, why you pick them, and the outcome of the fight.

RTS
I don't know if you know this but like Charles Martin I keep a towel with the names of people who have wronged me. The towel has around a dozen people on it right now. I don't want to name names but let's just say a former boss may be at the top of the list. Is that too cliché? I would win no question. He was an alcoholic and even in my bloated state I know I could pummel him into oblivion.

Jan
I like the bottled-anger towards the old boss. With all this MMA chatter, I’d wager a case of beer that if you and I bellied up to a bar tonight at the very least I could get you to call him and leave a profanity-laced tirade on his voicemail.

When first posed, I immediately thought Napoleon Bonaparte, I think because I assumed I could beat him and not embarrass himself in front an audience but I don’t really want to fight a Frenchman.

I don’t know his name but when I was 9 years old I went to Camp Warren. After dinner you could go to the “store” and buy candy before lights-out. The first night of camp I was running back to my bunk excited about my handful of Root Beer Barrels and an older camper ran by me and “dropped his shoulder” simultaneously knocking the wind out of my as I spun around 220 degrees; I was blasted, my loot, scattered. Laughter erupted from everywhere as I tried to gather my wits. The transgressor didn’t even slow down to steal my candy, he just wanted to level me. That’s who I want, that kid - oh, and I’d take him as that 13 year-old punk with me being my 35 year-old self. Yes, I want to fight a 13 year-old.